You Can Make The Judgement, But You Are Not The Judge

Mandeville, LA – Exclusive Transcript – “That’s the lesson of modernity, folks.  All of you out there that still reject it.  All your friends that tell you we’ve got to go vote Republican, we’ve got to be conservative, as if you could even define that, won’t define the one thing that they should be conservative on, and that is the preservation of the one true faith.”  Check out today’s transcript for the rest….

Begin Mike Church Show Transcript

Mike:  What is encouraging for me, though, and I’m assuming he said this on the airwaves at WSB Atlanta, which then tells me that even though I was unceremoniously escorted out of the building on Sirius XM, that the direction that we’re headed is the direction that this medium is going.  There has to be – there’s always a reckoning.  There’s always a reckoning.  You would either be reckoned by fire or you would be reckoned by grace, one of the two.  We may be blessed to be reckoned by or corrected by grace and not by fire.  If so, this blue ocean in front of us is the only way you must pass through.  That can take the form of what they’re doing in Poland and what they’ve already done in Hungary, which is Protestants and Catholics buried the sword and went: All right, let’s get together.  Let’s re-write a good constitution.  Let’s get the order correct.  Let’s make homosexual marriage illegal.  Let’s make abortion illegal.  There were clauses in that constitution that make it very difficult for divorce.  In other words, they realized you cannot build a country on laissez-faire.  You cannot build a society that seeks eternity and have a government that seeks to do nothing more than promote the common good if you don’t have the order correct.

That’s the lesson of modernity, folks.  All of you out there that still reject it.  All your friends that tell you we’ve got to go vote Republican, we’ve got to be conservative, as if you could even define that, won’t define the one thing that they should be conservative on, and that is the preservation of the one true faith.  What I reflect on with sadness and pray upon almost every day is that we’re all pursuing pretty much the same thing.  When we say we pursue the truth, we think that we are.  The propaganda and perversion of the truth and of its ancient and beautiful meaning, what’s happened to it?  It’s been perverted to the point where, [mocking] “Well, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.”  I think if they wrote it down in the middle of the 15^th century in response to one of the greatest heresies every, and they did so out of sincere love and charity towards those souls at that time, and that all they did was basically say: Your grandfather believed this, Luther.  What are you saying, that he was wrong?  Your great-grandfather believed this.  All they said at the Council of Trent was: Look, guys, this is what it’s always been.  When Father Luther was confirmed, when his fingers were blessed, he went through the ordination process.  He accepted it.  He accepted it as truth.  It wasn’t until it became inconvenient that he went: Wait a minute!  I’ve got an idea.  I still think that we agree on much more than we disagree on.

David Simpson:  We do.  You go to these political rallies – I used to go to more than I do now.  You and I have experienced it when we used to do our ReFounding Father Society meetings as well.  I’ll beg.  I won’t even try to make an argument anymore.  I’ll just beg people.  When you go to these things and someone brings up the issue of trying to get the order correct, the reason they’re saying that is because you cannot argue for truth unless we can define what truth is, we can actually say what truth means, which we do on this show quite a bit.  Conformity of mind to reality.  When we argue about trying to conform minds to reality, let’s actually use reality as a gauge of that thing.  A lot of people show up at these rallies, in other words, and they say: I’m conservative.  The minute you mention Christianity, morality, just the idea of goodness, a creed, you get jumped on with both feet.  They want “conservatism” without any means by which to establish conservatism.  That’s been our nightmare.

You’re right.  You go to a political rally and there will be hundreds of people who will sing Mike Church’s praises.  [mocking] “Mike, you gave a great speech.  I really got into that.  That’s awesome.”  The minute you say, “In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,” [mocking] “Ahh!!  Hey, how’d that get in here!?”  If you thought his mind was appealing on certain issues, why would he be so off on another issue?  That’s the poison we live under.

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I don’t know how to get rid of it, other than to keep saying over and over and over again that Mike and I aren’t saying anything new.  We’re saying what’s been true forever and are just trying to bring it to the forefront today.  We buried it.  We buried it in the backyard and we’ve pissed on it.

Mike:  I’m reading from “Reconsidering My Opposition to Trump” from radio talk show host, Fox News personality, and the founder and creator of RedState.com, Erick Erickson.  Again, this is not David and I trying to chastise Erickson.  We actually are heartened to see his argument and the direction that he’s taking.  Call it providing some fraternal correction.  If I’m in error, fraternally correct me.  I fast forwarded three pages.

[reading]

Scripture tells me (and you) that believers should have nothing to do with any person who holds himself out as a Christian and is unrepentant.

“But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church[a] whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.” 1 Corinthians 5:11-13

“We instruct you, brothers, in the name of [our] Lord Jesus Christ, to shun any brother who conducts himself in a disorderly way and not according to the tradition they received from us.” 2 Thess 3:6

[end reading]

Mike:  I view this and read this as just another attempt to take: I know the point I want to make, so I’m just going to go find me some verses and cram my point into those verses and voila.  It’s easy.  I can link the two.  Now the verses mean the point I was trying to make.

Simpson:  I think maybe you’re reading into it there.  I’m going to say he’s legit.  I’m going to take him at face value and say: Hey, we as people are supposed to make judgments based on the fruits, the actions of others.  I’ll take him at face value and say that he is literally trying to judge Trump as someone who violates those principles.  So far as he’s right, fine.  Good for him.  I don’t have a problem with that.  He’s not the arbiter of such a thing.  I think that’s the point you’re making.  He’s not the judge of that.  He can make the judgment, but he’s not the judge of what the thing actually means.  In other words, if he’s misinterpreting it or not we don’t know.  What we do know is that the verse is the verse and it’s accurate.

Mike:  So also is it accurate “Be not of this world but be in this world.”  I think there’s a higher author there.  By the way, Happy Feast of St. Matthew Day.  Today we get the gospel according to Matthew.  You know what I found fascinating about that?  Reading that from an old source, from a traditional source passed down from generation to generation is that apocryphally it was said – in other words, this was passed down orally from generation to generation, that St. Matthew, when he went to go write the gospel long after ascension, couldn’t remember or needed assistance and was assisted by angels.  Like when St. John the Evangelist said: Dude, I don’t have the ability to write all this, but if 100 of you will say you’ll pray to the Holy Ghost to come and give me inspiration, then I’ll do it.  Of course, he got 1,000.  The same thing happened with Matthew apparently.  He says: I am incapable of this task that you’re charging me with, but with some divine help I can pull it off.  Of course, we know that he did.

[reading]

This is the inerrant word of God and Christians are choosing to ignore it because they have convinced themselves they are not electing a priest, but a President. Therefore they have segregated the commands of their faith from the desires for themselves. I cannot bifurcate my faith in that way. I cannot in good conscience support anyone who bears the name of brother when he is unrepentant of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler.

[end reading]

Simpson:  All I can hope is that he holds that standard all the time.

Mike:  That means if you have any friends that are divorced because they are adulterers, they get on their knees and ask you, that they apologize to you?

Simpson:  No, no.  I’m just saying I really hope – like the guy he knows – like you said, a next-door neighbor runs for city council next week and the guy’s a swindling pig.  I hope he goes to that guy and says: Man, I’m not supporting you.  Go get right first.  If he would do that, I think he’d have great impact on his own soul and on the souls of those closest to him.  I don’t know that he will do that because it gets a lot tougher when it’s your next-door neighbor.

[reading]

It is not just because of my values, but for Donald Trump’s own salvation that I cannot embrace him. [Simpson: That’s a weird one.] For Wayne Grudem and Janet Parshall and other Christians to support Trump in his present rebellious state against God to serve their political interests is selfishness.

Here now is a man in Donald Trump who sees no need to be saved and has no understanding of a faith he professes. And he sees Christians cheering him on in his rebellious state, defending him when they blasted others for the very same sins.

The whole purpose of shunning the unrepentant sinner is to drive him to God. [Mike: Where is this shunning the . . . I don’t know] Yet, Christians in America . . .

[end reading]

Mike:  I’m thinking harlots at wells I’m thinking of, lepers in –

Simpson:  Remember, he said shunning the unrepentant.  It would be similar to what St. Paul says, knock the dust up your feet –

Mike:  Wait a minute.  This is more of this pharisaical –

Simpson:  That’s the tendency.

Mike:  It’s parsimonious.  This is parsimonious here that – you don’t know that that – that guy might not even think he’s sinful.  He could be willfully ignorant of it, but you’re assuming that he knows that he’s doing it and he’s not repentant for it.

Simpson:  But we have to presume a conscience that would twinge at error.  In other words, I have –

Mike:  Here’s what I find somewhat, not objectionable about this, but I’m just wondering what his email inbox looks like.  I’ve never gone anywhere near this.  I have never said it’s my opinion and I say and then quoted something and then damned someone.  I’ve never gone anywhere near that, yet I have been hanged from the telephone pole out there by my pinkie toes for – well . . .

Simpson:  No, you’ve definitely never shunned someone on the air, and have always tried to excuse them by giving them the benefit of the doubt that their conscience hasn’t been pricked.

Mike:  Let’s get to the punchline here.

[reading]

All Christendom should be ashamed we are putting our needs in this temporary place ahead of saving a soul bound for eternity.

[end reading]

Mike:  Again, standing on the beach that is the Veritas Radio Network beach, looking at the Crusade Channel blue ocean.  Those guys over there have been talking about that eternity thing.  That eternity guy interests me.  I’m going to watch you, buddy.

Simpson:  Is this the same article?  I read all three of the articles you sent me.  One of them mentions Mordor.  I thought: Oh my gosh, they’re even stealing Mike’s language now.  Not that you made up the word Mordor.  Now that other guys have chosen to use that analogy, I thought that was rather curious.  Is he the one who used it?  I think he is.

Mike:  Which one?

Simpson:  Mordor.  Isn’t he the one who used Mordor earlier in the article?

Mike:  Did he use Mordor?

Simpson:  He did.  I’m thinking: Man, he’s been listening to the Veritas Radio Network.

Mike:  Maybe.

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[reading]

That I see so many Christians justifying Donald Trump’s immorality, defining deviancy down, and turning to anger and despondency about the future tells me I cannot in good faith support Donald Trump because his victory would have lasting, damaging consequences for Christianity in America.

[end reading]

Mike:  You don’t know that.

Simpson:  It’s just kind of funny that –

Mike:  How?

Simpson:  Why would you place the blame on Trump in that circumstance when you should rather be saying we’ve already damaged Christianity so much, we’ve deformed it so badly that we’re the problem?  We’re the cause of this demise by us not being faithful people, not Donald Trump causing us to be unfaithful after he gets elected.  That’s a little bit of a stretch.

[reading]

We harm our witness and the testimony of the strength of our Lord by embracing the immoral, unrepentant strong man.

[end reading]

FOLKS, a message from Mike – The Project 76 features, Church Doctrine videos and everything else on this site are supported by YOU. We have over 70, of my personally designed, written, produced and directed products for sale in the Founders Tradin’ Post, 24/7,  here. You can also support our efforts with a Founders Pass membership granting total access to years of my work for just .23 cents per day. Thanks for 19 years of mike church.com! – Mike

Mike:  Again, this is elevating the State to the exact same tier as the Church and the Faith.  You’re placing them on the same plane and saying – of course, the heresy of Americanism, of course, the State is above the Church, and it’s above the Faith.  The Faith operates on a level below it, and the Church gets its way first.  God doesn’t have any rights.  Again, I think he’s right about that.

[reading]

We harm our American virtue by buying into the idea that one man can make America great again.

[end reading]

Mike:  I’d like to ask: Okay, when was America great?  Can you give me a date?  I want a date and a time.  Was it great for one day?  Was it great for five years?  When was it great?  Was it great when 828,000 were killed in the War of Northern Aggression?  Was it great then?  Was it great when there were alleged Christians that were impressing and enslaving Africans and making them African-Americans in the Deep South, was it?  Was it great when they were having illicit, immoral affairs with them and producing biracial children?  Was America great then?  Was America great at the turn of the century when Teddy Roosevelt decided that Cuba needed a dose of American exceptionalism and entered democracy into a former Catholic constituency?  Was it great then?

Was it great when Andrew Jackson kicked the Catholics out of St. Augustine and said “I’m claiming this for Protestant America”?  Was it great then?  When was it great, Erick?  Was it great when the Mormons sanctioned and then put into their law bigamy and polygamy?  Was it great then?  [mocking] “Oh, but, Mike, they weren’t admitted into the union.”  Because they put a law in that said they wouldn’t do it anymore, right.  Was it great when San Bernardino Valley was turned into the greatest porn capital in the history of porn capitals?  Was it great then?  This pride that the country or the government of the country must be regarded as great by everyone and every soul and every history book must record this, it just irks me.

End Mike Church Show Transcript