Finding Common Ground for ONE Evil
Mandeville, LA – Exclusive Transcript – “It was about 66 years after the crucifixion that he was asked to writeThe Gospel According to John. His response to the priest and the friars that had asked him to do it, his response was: I’ll tell you what. I remember most of the story. I’d like to get it all completely, though, and I can’t do this. If you all will get together and you pray, pray that the Paraclete inspires and guides my pen, I’ll do it. We know that that happened because we have The Gospel According to John.” Check out today’s transcript for the rest….
Begin Mike Church Show Transcript
Mike: This is Mike in Louisville up next. How you doing?
Caller Mike: Good morning, Mike. How are you?
Mike: I am disquieted.
Caller Mike: This is my second time calling. I appreciate you having me on. I feel like I want to sit down with you and have a beer someday. I am a Protestant and I love listening to your show. I think we have a lot in common that we can discuss.
Mike: We do.
Caller Mike: One of those is, today you mentioned regarding works, doing one little thing and that’s all you need to do. That is just an abomination of what the scripture says is what true salvation is. The discussion, obviously, between Protestants and Catholicism historically is the efficacy of those works, or the meritorious nature of them, which Protestants would simply reject.
Mike: Let’s be clear, which Martin Luther in his heresy rejected.
Caller Mike: Well, sure.
Mike: If we want to be historically correct, it began with Luther. It began with Luther taking a dagger, writing his manifesto, and nailing it onto the church nearest to where the royal palace was or King Henry VIII was holding court. Who was the first person to take Martin Luther to task? Do you know? I do. Henry VII. Henry VIII wanted to kick him out. Anyway, that’s just part of the historical record.
Caller Mike: But the question is not whether it was heresy, in my mind. Obviously you define it as heresy. I would simply say —
Mike: No, actually the pope at the time — let’s go over a couple things here. What was going on at the time was this thing, this absolutely sinful, horrible act by the pope at the time called the indulgences. The indulgences is what caused this. An indulgence foisted on people by a corrupt pope is something that should have been dealt with with the corrupt pope, not with the church that Christ established. I think that’s where the divide is there. I don’t know any Catholic that knows their history that would deny that Luther should have been and others should have been livid over what happened. Just to give you an example, Mike — you’re right. There is a lot to talk about here. We’re not going to settle this today. We’ll both meditate on the following. What happened on the day that Christ was crucified in the court of Pilate when Peter, the first pope, St. Peter was asked if he was a friend of that man? What happened?
Caller Mike: He rejected him.
Mike: How many times?
Caller Mike: Three.
Mike: St. John the Evangelist did not. He was the only one — ten of the first eleven bishops, the apostles, rejected Christ. They ran and hid exactly as he knew they were going to. Only one did not run and that was St. John the Evangelist. He stood there with Our Lady at the foot of the cross. We know this because he recorded it in his own gospel. Using Luther’s logic, what should have happened then is John should have left the church of Peter because Peter ran and denied Christ. He did this horrible thing. Is there any bigger sin — and indulgence is a sin certainly. Is there any bigger sin than denying the existence of God and denying your God? I don’t think so. So St. John should then have usurped Peter.
Let’s go a little further into John’s gospel. What happens when Mary Magdalene runs to the apostles and says: He’s gone! Our Lord is gone. They took him! What do they do? They run to the tomb. Peter, John, and I think James run to the tomb. John is younger than Peter. He beats him to the tomb but what does he do? He waits. He doesn’t go in. Why? None of this happens by accident. Who’s the first to go in? Peter. This is John acknowledging that Christ told him: You kepha (the Aramaic word for rock)!
I think we have — look, I would work night and day, and there have been men that have worked night and day, brother Mike, to try and heal the schism and to bring everyone back together. If we’re going to fight the Mohammedans, and if our survival depends on it, you and I should be having conversations about what we agree on. Sure, we can talk about what we disagree on, but we should focus on what we agree on so that when we are called upon and when we have to stand united as Christians, regardless of denomination, because our very survival depends on it — like the citizens of Vienna’s survival and of many cities in France and Germany throughout the world of Christendom, their survival depended on it. Pope Francis or Pope Benedict, whoever’s the pope at the time is not going to be the enemy. The enemy is going to be the invader. The enemy is going to be the person that wishes to convert or kill the infidel. When are we going to have that beer?
Caller Mike: Christ said: Don’t fear the one who can kill your body but the one who can kill your soul. What’s more important to me — why I like listening to you, Mike, is because I feel that most of the Catholics I talk to are not as clear in their theology as you are. They don’t even understand Christ as well as you do. I don’t know why that’s a product of the Catholic Church as it is today. I’m a baptized Catholic. I come from a Catholic family, actually. I’ve just finished seminary at a Baptist school.
Mike: Really? Which one?
Caller Mike: Southern Baptist Theological Seminary here in Louisville.
Mike: Fantastic. You probably know more about the gospels than I do. I hope you do.
Caller Mike: I hope I do as well just because I’ve studied it specifically. I mentioned to the screener, the other thing I feel was really interesting, I was listening to you Monday or Tuesday about the authorial intent of the Constitution. It really made me wonder how you don’t have that same passion for the authorial intent for the scriptures. Perhaps you do; however, Catholicism itself — I’m asking a question, I guess. They perceive to use tradition and the authorial intent of the pope as equal to the authorial intent of the scriptures. In that way it seems to undermine —
Mike: I’m understanding the argument. I need to meditate and pray on it and need to get a lot better at it. I certainly am no theologian of any sort. Once I start studying something, I have this sickness. I can’t stop. I don’t have an off button. I can’t turn it off. I want to move onto some other callers. I don’t want to be rude. What I would say in response to your very thoughtful question is — I’m fascinated by the gospel of St. John. It’s a marvelous work, and I’m reading it in Latin. I’ve got a little translation book and I’m translating it in Latin as I read, which is why I was able to quote the one today about “He who hates me hates my Father.” Christ also said, when they begged him not to leave, when Peter said: It can’t be. You can’t go. Our Lord said: You don’t understand — of course, he couldn’t understand. He actually said that. You can’t understand but you will. I have to go, because if I don’t go, then the Paraclete can’t come. The Paraclete, of course, is the Holy Ghost.
The fascinating part about this, for all you that think this is just some kind of mystical conversation about fantastical stuff that didn’t happen, when the Gospel of John was written — he lived the longest. We know this. St. John the Evangelist outlived the other — of course, Judas died the day of the crucifixion. The other eleven did not outlive St. John the Evangelist. St. John lived the longest. He was probably the most active. There was nowhere he would not go if he was called upon. Read the life of St. Johnfrom Alban Butler in Butler’s Lives of the Saints and you’ll just be blown away by the long life. I think he lived to be 96 or 98 — there’s some disagreement on that — almost to 100.
It was about 66 years after the crucifixion that he was asked to writeThe Gospel According to John. His response to the priest and the friars that had asked him to do it, his response was: I’ll tell you what. I remember most of the story. I’d like to get it all completely, though, and I can’t do this. If you all will get together and you pray, pray that the Paraclete inspires and guides my pen, I’ll do it. We know that that happened because we have The Gospel According to John. If you’re going to say Matthew, Mark, Luke,
and John, you’re acknowledging — you can’t get away from this. There are many, many Christians who deny the existence of the Holy Ghost. Then don’t say Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; say Matthew, Mark and Luke. You can’t use John. How do we know this? John wrote a letter to one of the churches and said: I can’t do this on my own. I need help from the Paraclete. Pray for me and if the help comes, I’ll write it.
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We have every evidence we need, all the evidence we would ever need as Christians to firmly establish the existence of what Christ said he would lead to us, which is the Holy Ghost, the Paraclete. Why is this important? This is what is called upon by the saints and, yes, the popes, and, yes, I would say people of all — all Christians should call upon the Paraclete. Lord, by the power of the Holy Spirit, help me. I am mortal. I am frail. I’m a prideful sinner. I can’t do this. I don’t have the freewill. Only if you send me some grace will I be able to do this.
So, you’re right, Mike, we agree on much more. I think we just — look, there is a force that is trying to divide here. There’s a force that’s trying to divide and it’s an evil force. He’s winning and he has been winning. We’re getting ready to face some dark, dark, evil times. We’re going to be a lot better off together than we are going to be at each other’s throats.
End Mike Church Show Transcript