Wisdom Wednesday – Atheist Kyle: The World Is Better Off Without Religions

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Mandeville, LA – Exclusive Transcript – “Let’s take out Kyle’s prejudice, which is religion.  Let’s take out the religious issue and say it’s not religion, it’s control.  How do we control people?  We either control people from the outside, which is what we call the police state, or we control people from the inside, which is what we call morality.  He might reject the word morality, I don’t know.  At some point in time, you have to say: How is a society governed?  You want people to be governed mostly by just doing the right thing at the right time.  Once you bring up the word right, there’s an ought involved.  That’s ethics.  How are we supposed to act?”  Check out today’s transcript AND AUDIO CLIP OF THE DAY for the rest….

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Begin Mike Church Show Transcript

Mike:  Lots to talk about here on a Wisdom Wednesday with David Simpson.  Let’s go to the phones.  Your friend and mine, David, Kyle from Florida on the line.  Hello, Kyle, how you doing?

Caller Kyle:  Good, thank you.  How are you?

Mike:  We’re well.

Caller Kyle:  Who was that, by the way, in the intro giving the speech about the statistics to that college girl?

Mike:  That is Jeff Daniels in the HBO series The Newsroom.

Caller Kyle:  Interesting.  I’m surprised you – did you like the part about the adults believing in angels.

Mike:  I was entertained by it, Kyle.

Caller Kyle:  Fair enough.  I just wanted to call.  I don’t think there’s any reason to believe that an increase in religiosity

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would lead to a more stable or moral nation.  I know it’s a consistent theme in this show.  I just don’t think there’s any evidence to support that.

Mike:  Really?

Caller Kyle:  Yeah.  You saw that Pew poll out recently, right, the decrease in – I think it was American citizens.  I don’t think it was a North American thing; it was just the United States, right?

Mike:  What, the Pew poll?  Yes.  Well, no, I think the Pew surveys the world.  But yes, they had results that were specific to the United States.

Caller Kyle:  Either way, crime rate overall is going down in the U.S. and the world, whereas you have the most dysfunctional states that are the most religious in the United States.  There’s no reason to think that an increase in religiosity –

Mike:  This is what is known as a – you say there’s no reason at all.  There are millions of reasons, actually.  This is what is known as a logical fallacy.  Your syllogism makes absolutely no sense and you sound like an imbecile for putting it forward.  I could say that the amount of asparagus in the United States has decreased also.  Can I then link that to the decrease in crime, Kyle?

Caller Kyle:  No, you’re making –

Mike:  No, I can insert anything into my two terms to get to my conclusion.  You wish for the conclusion to be that it’s awesome to be an atheist.  You’re using it as: Well, there’s a decrease in crime.  Give me the rest of the formula.

Caller Kyle:  Let me explain why you’re misconstruing my words here.  What I’m saying is your proposition is –

Mike:  It’s not my proposition.

Caller Kyle:  Yes, it is.

Mike:  No, it’s Almighty God’s proposition.  I didn’t make it up.  I got it from him.

Caller Kyle:  I’m sorry.  He hasn’t told me these things.

Mike:  He has, you just refuse to listen.

Caller Kyle:  Okay.  Anyway.  Your proposition is if all of us would only find faith, find God, then we would be a better country, we’d be more moral, we’d just be a better people.

Mike:  You don’t need a treasure map to find him.  It’s not as though he’s hiding.  But go ahead, finish.

Caller Kyle:  Would you agree that’s your proposition?  If more people would convert and find God, we would be better off?

Mike:  For those that convert and then pursue objective truth and seek in all things God’s graces, yes, we would all be better off.  The people that would – I can’t say that we would all be better off.  I could say that those would be directly affected by or directly in contact with those people of grace, yes, would be better off.

Caller Kyle:  Okay.  Well, you just added a lot of qualifications to a very general statement that you make all the time.

Mike:  David, is it fair to – would you say that we can put it in a logical syllogism that – first of all, we can’t get to all.

David Simpson:  Let’s take out Kyle’s prejudice, which is religion.  Let’s take out the religious issue and say it’s not religion, it’s control.  How do we control people?  We either control people from the outside, which is what we call the police state, or we control people from the inside, which is what we call morality.  He might reject the word morality, I don’t know.  At some point in time, you have to say: How is a society governed?  You want people to be governed mostly by just doing the right thing at the right time.  Once you bring up the word right, there’s an ought involved.  That’s ethics.  How are we supposed to act?  The Church has always been the group that says: These are the tenets by which we are supposed to act.  That’s all the Church is about, is offering the norms of society for right conduct.  I don’t see how anybody in their right mind could reject something like that.

Caller Kyle:  I am sitting here in my right mind and I do reject it because you are –

Mike:  Then your mind is not right.

Caller Kyle:  Okay.  Well, people were cooperating and developing moral ideas long, long, long before the Bible was written.

Simpson:  Name one, Kyle.  You make all these great assumptions and you say these things.  The only reason you can even say these thoughts and think these things is because you have had a prior morality.  In other words, everything that you’ve gotten, everything you receive, all these freedoms you allege you have just by happenstance happened because of moral constructs.  It didn’t happen by happenstance.  It didn’t fall out of the sky and we all started deciding to act this way.  Give me a break.  Give me one moral tenet that fell out of the air four million years ago.

Mike:  Give me one.

Caller Kyle:  I’m not sure who I’m responding to here.  Are you trying to tell me that –

Mike:  No, just one.   It’s a simple thing.  Name the person who gave it to us and the moral tenet that predates the Bible.

Caller Kyle:  That’s the beauty.  Nobody had to give it to us.  It’s a function of humans evolving over time to work together with each other.

Mike:  How do you know that?  Were you there?

Caller Kyle:  No, of course not.

Mike:  Well, Moses was there and actually wrote it down.

Simpson:  Let’s flip it around, Kyle.  You see all the riots that we’re having and all the wars across the world and everything else.  What is that?  That’s evolution to a worse society or a better society?  How do you explain those things?

Caller Kyle:  That’s not evolution.  You don’t understand evolution –

Mike:  Oh, okay.  Now we don’t understand evolution because something doesn’t fit into the formula.  Got it.  In other words, you’re like any environmentalist whacko.  Nothing disproves the theory of manmade catastrophic global warming.  If it gets hotter, it’s our fault.  If it gets colder, it’s our fault.  Nothing disproves the theory of catastrophic climate change, or anthropogenic to be scientific about it, nothing disproves it.  As Mark Marano says all the time when he comes on this show: This fake scientism – that’s what it is – has its own conclusion.  The conclusion is already written.  It’s man’s fault.  So it doesn’t matter what the two terms – as Brother Francis would say, that he plows into the endeavor – it doesn’t matter what the two terms are because we already know what the conclusion is.

Simpson:  Right.  You don’t need the argument.

Mike:  You don’t need the arguments.

Simpson:  Why use logic or anything else?

Mike:  You can put anything you want into it.  You can put: Well, if a polar bear decides to start doing his business at 13 degrees latitude instead of 11, that’s what caused the global warming.

Simpson:  I’m going to give Kyle this prop.  I don’t understand evolution because it makes no sense.  I will frankly say I don’t understand it.

Mike:  Kyle, it’s always enjoyable.  How are you?  How’s your health otherwise?

Caller Kyle:  Very good.  How about yourself?

Mike:  We’re good, we’re good.  David and I always enjoy writing to you and talking to you.  Thanks for your being consistent.  We continue to pray for you, whether you like it or not, so offer something up to the evolutionary druids or stars or nothingness for me, would you?

Caller Kyle:  You got it.

Mike:  That’s what we have to do today.  We can’t scream and holler and argue to people because you’re not going to convert anyone.

Simpson:  I know I lost it a little bit.

Mike:  No, you didn’t.  It’s perfectly fine to have a passion, or, as St. Augustine described it, a zeal. [/private]

Simpson:  Maybe that was it.

Mike:  Or was it St. Bernard of Clairvaux that described it as zeal?

Simpson:  You notice how he picked out in your little intro thing about the adults believing in angels, like: How ridiculous is that?  And somehow or another, that means anything that’s religious is just foolish, right?  By the way, we were all inculcated with this.  Every show you watch has got the priest that’s no good, or you have the religious person who’s a prostitute or whatever.  This is coming through the airwaves constantly, barraging us, that holy people are bad and people that don’t have these things are good.  It’s just false.  What is goodness?  Remember I told you I went to the Alliance for Good Government.  I asked: What is good government?  There was no answer forthcoming.  What is goodness?  It sure as heck isn’t coming out of some evolutionary process.  The world is good now?

End Mike Church Show Transcript